Topic: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Hi All!


Finally I can start to see the realization of my dream convertion ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/smile Soz for my bad spelling if any. hehe.

In the next cupple of weeks my motor should be in my limited edition toyota bubble shape 16valve sport corrolla.

Can't wait. Old motor with 40 sides coming off and being replaced by red top beams 2.0 3sge conversion. Gen 4.

Gonna mis my sides sound, but.... the power...

Motor is gonna run on dictator management and a vtec controller.

We are looking at a realistic  +- 160kw minimum to 170kw maybe almost touching 180kw n/a motor with ferroli who will be my tuning man off choice, and yes I know he loves golfs, but best man for the job with previous beams conversions.

Best part of all, don't have to modify my drive shafts to fit motor. I know a lot of guys wondered about this conversions and couldn't find answers, so I will be posting this topic as to help you out as best as I can.

Just remember I am not as glued up as most mechanics and will answer if I can. Only a poor Junior IT consultant with little knowladge, but might and most probably will be able to deliver some very usefull info as to costs and what to do etc.

Will post pics of my car as well.

For now here are some pics of what my car looks like.

1993 toyota corrolla 16v sport. 200 made of this colour with red carpets, side scirts etc. for one year.

Regards
Rehan

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

good stuff,all the luck. Wers the pics??

../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/wink Old Toyota'$ Never Die, They ju$t get Twincam Engine$ and Fly.. ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/cool

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Soz will post pics as soon as possible. Bit of work to do for client.

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

=Rehan]Soz will post pics as soon as possible. Bit of work to do for client.


Hope this shows:

[img]D:\Rehan\My Toyota Pics\IMG_0544.JPG[/img]

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Think this should work:

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h466/cloetere/Toyota%20LM%2016Valve%20Sport/IMG_0545.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h466/cloetere/Toyota%20LM%2016Valve%20Sport/IMG_0546.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h466/cloetere/Toyota%20LM%2016Valve%20Sport/IMG_0544.jpg


Some pics of the current state of car. Unfortunatly I havn't taken any pics with my current motor or when it's taken out. Will try and get those in the week if my mechanic already hasn't taken my old motor out.

Will also try and take pics of new motor.

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Rehan wrote:

Think this should work:

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h466/cloetere/Toyota%20LM%2016Valve%20Sport/IMG_0545.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h466/cloetere/Toyota%20LM%2016Valve%20Sport/IMG_0546.jpg
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h466/cloetere/Toyota%20LM%2016Valve%20Sport/IMG_0544.jpg


Some pics of the current state of car. Unfortunatly I havn't taken any pics with my current motor or when it's taken out. Will try and get those in the week if my mechanic already hasn't taken my old motor out.

Will also try and take pics of new motor.

But the conversion is quite expensive if anyone is interested to know. Don't expect to just pay R25k

Here are a list so far of everything I need.


Motor + Gearbox:                 R9250
ECU(Diktator + map):           R2950
Vtec Controller:                    R3000
Radiator Pipes:                   +-R300
Brackets:                           +-R180
Selector Cables:                 +-R250
Mountings:                         +-R180
Wiring:                               R2000 (this is with twincam clocks)
Fuel Lines:                        +-R200
Exhaust(68 into 63mil):       R2500 at power flow (keeping my original Exhaust tip R600)
Front Brakes:                      R1500 (crossed drilled plus ventilated with callipers 22v)
Back Brakes:                       R1500 (Single solid rsi dics with callipers)
Tuning:                           +-R2500 (Stil need precise pricing)
Tank with walbro pump:       R1500
Labour                                (will have to ask my mechanic for qoutes if you want to do the conv.) But he doesn't try to murder you like most bullshit mechanics! He is really the cheapest by FAR! And I mean by a milestone!!

Drive Shaft:                        R0.00 (My brilliant mechanic found a way arround this problam) Using original drive shafts. No mods needed! Drove his car for whole year without any probs. Sold the car to friend and started new proj. And his friend also no problems since then as well.

Probably the best or rather is the best n/a conversion you can do without reliability issues etc.

Small extras (cone filter induction, clamps etc):   +- R1500 backup.

I am also putting on new dunlop star spec z1 performance tyres or Hankook v12 evo's

Prob gonna be arround                 R2600 - 3k bracket.
And then HID kit for headlamps:   R850

These prices might very by a very small margin far all items in "+-".

But ya it isn't a cheap conversion. But this will give you a accurate spec.

Happy reading ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/biggrin2

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Mechanic is Ububakar Abrams.

No.1 guy if you thinking of doing this conversion vs price and professionalism and advice.

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Question... Y is there a need for Vtec controller?

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/allyzone22/XS-3.png
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2007 ICupra TDi BTurbo
2010 Toyota Corolla 1.3i

(ex) 2008 BMW 320i Sportspack
(ex) 2005 Tazz 1300

The best built cars in the world

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

PugLa wrote:

Question... Y is there a need for Vtec controller?


Hi there,

As far as I know and my mechanic said, the vtec controller is needed for the car to idle smoothly, and as the car wont make the power I want without it. The car will idle rough without it, and with it you wont even notice the rough cams that comes with that motor.

Vtec controller works in percentages in corrisponance with your foot down on the accelerator and works alot better than the VVT system.

That is why with a good tune with the vtec controller, you wont get the standard rated 154kw that that motor makes, but rather more to 171kw more or les.

He had the silver top motor, and did nothing to it, and showed me the dino sheets, and that motor kicks out 10 kw less than red top. Think its 137kw standard, and he was pushing out without any mods. Shust dictator and vtec controller with 63mm freeflow,
161kw 226nm of torque on his motor. And believe me for n/a that think moved!

s2000 couldn't keep up with him. focus st's he raped. I saw the vids and car. OMW. The power.. You get scared. Very nice for n/a power without having probs along the way. Just normal service intervals and that motor will never give you probs. Yamaha power! ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/biggrin2

Here is a link if you would like to read up more on VVT-i vs VTEC.

But thats why the controller you only get from ferrolli. He uses it on his golfs as far as I am aware off. R3k and then the one guys does the wiring with ferrolli doing the tuning. Not best guy to work with seeing as he will ignore you as a toyota man when a golf addict comes along with questions.

But he does a very good tune.
A lot of guys are doing this conversion now. Only recently problems arround this conversion has been completely solve, and is a VERY GREATLY better mod to do than going 20v. Just a bit pricy... But worth it.

Here is a link: (Happy reading) ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/smile

http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec.htm

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

PugLa wrote:

Question... Y is there a need for Vtec controller?


Hi there,

As far as I know and my mechanic said, the vtec controller is needed for the car to idle smoothly, and as the car wont make the power I want without it. The car will idle rough without it, and with it you wont even notice the rough cams that comes with that motor.

Vtec controller works in percentages in corrisponance with your foot down on the accelerator and works alot better than the VVT system.

That is why with a good tune with the vtec controller, you wont get the standard rated 154kw that that motor makes, but rather more to 171kw more or les.

He had the silver top motor, and did nothing to it, and showed me the dino sheets, and that motor kicks out 10 kw less than red top. Think its 137kw standard, and he was pushing out without any mods. Shust dictator and vtec controller with 63mm freeflow,
161kw 226nm of torque on his motor. And believe me for n/a that think moved!

s2000 couldn't keep up with him. focus st's he raped. I saw the vids and car. OMW. The power.. You get scared. Very nice for n/a power without having probs along the way. Just normal service intervals and that motor will never give you probs. Yamaha power! ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/biggrin2

Here is a link if you would like to read up more on VVT-i vs VTEC.

But thats why the controller you only get from ferrolli. He uses it on his golfs as far as I am aware off. R3k and then the one guys does the wiring with ferrolli doing the tuning. Not best guy to work with seeing as he will ignore you as a toyota man when a golf addict comes along with questions.

But he does a very good tune.
A lot of guys are doing this conversion now. Only recently problems arround this conversion has been completely solve, and is a VERY GREATLY better mod to do than going 20v. Just a bit pricy... But worth it.

Here is a link: (Happy reading) ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/smile

http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec.htm

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

@ REHAN,WATS THE RECOMMENDED SUFFICIENT FUEL PRESSURE FOR THE 3SGE MOTOR?,SORRY FOR THE DUMB ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink Q,MUCH APRECIATED FOR A REPLY

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Kyle bubble fisher wrote:

@ REHAN,WATS THE RECOMMENDED SUFFICIENT FUEL PRESSURE FOR THE 3SGE MOTOR?,SORRY FOR THE DUMB ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink Q,MUCH APRECIATED FOR A REPLY


Hi Kyle,

To be honest, I am not quite sure. But it should be in the same region as the neo vvl's. So prob around 2.5 bar I think?
But any good tuner should give you a good recommended spec. I currently ran into a problem now where my car isn't giving enough fuel pressure. So starting to stutter and miss fire. And at higher rpm she doesn't run as strong as she used too. When I lift my foot, then the power sort of comes back, but if I plant I can feel she doesn't want to pull.

And even if I plant her hard, no smoke. And I can hear the pump wissling. But ya, I know the tank is faulty and I need a FPR and External walbro pump to sort out the problem. And with that comes another tune.... So waiting till I have enough money available.

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Hello!!

I just bought the same shape rolla with the Same engine  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/biggrin2  Red Top Beams!
-BUT i have been having some issues.

@5500rpm the Car limits itself, well the longer you drive the further the limiter 'goes'
it feels fast if it goes past 5500rpm but i think it needs some tuning. Sometimes it does not limit at all and goes to 7500rpm cleanly without any problems.. ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/sad

last dyno (KAR) said 135hp @6500rpm....it should be more @7000rpm

Anyhow its running Dicktator 36-1 at the moment.

Any suggestions?

thanks.

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Rehan wrote:

Mechanic is Ububakar Abrams.

No.1 guy if you thinking of doing this conversion vs price and professionalism and advice.

.

Is this mechanic in Lenz?

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Rehan wrote:
PugLa wrote:

Question... Y is there a need for Vtec controller?



That is why with a good tune with the vtec controller, you wont get the standard rated 154kw that that motor makes, but rather more to 171kw more or les.

The Blacktop Beams engine makes 154kw, Redtop Beams (Gen 4) is rated at 147kw. The power figures for these motors listed are all based upon using 102 Octane.

Are you quoting Flywheel power or Wheel power for your power figures above?

Would love to see a pic of your dyno graaf if you have one.  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/wink

Last edited by Shadow (2013-03-13 15:51:43)

94' Conquest 7AGE-20V  科學怪人 
Built By Salim & Tuffy                                                     
CandyMan Tuned (143wkw @7000rpm)  Pump Fuel!!
Ethanol Map (1??wkw @ 7900rpm)                   


"We can’t think like Africans, in Africa, generally. We are in Johannesburg, this is Johannesburg. It’s not some national road in Malawi.” - Jacob Zuma
                                           

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

semicolon wrote:

last dyno (KAR) said 135hp @6500rpm....it should be more @7000rpm

That is seriously under powered for that engine, some stock silvertop 20v's push more than that.

I'd suggest you get the car dyno tuned properly  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/wink

Last edited by Shadow (2013-03-13 15:57:59)

94' Conquest 7AGE-20V  科學怪人 
Built By Salim & Tuffy                                                     
CandyMan Tuned (143wkw @7000rpm)  Pump Fuel!!
Ethanol Map (1??wkw @ 7900rpm)                   


"We can’t think like Africans, in Africa, generally. We are in Johannesburg, this is Johannesburg. It’s not some national road in Malawi.” - Jacob Zuma
                                           

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Here's some specs on the RedTop Beams just out of interest :

Gen 4 3S-GE (Redtop) :
Power - 200ps (197bhp) @ 7000rpm
Torque - 21kg-m (152ft.lb) @ 6000rpm
compression ratio - 11:1
Cam duration (IN/EX) - 256°/244° ( timing is -2~43/78~33 thats the vvti range)
Cam lift (IN/EX) - 10.5mm/9.2mm (53/11)
Valve diameter (IN/EX) - 34.5mm/29.5mm
Throttle body diameter - 65mm
Injector size - 340cc

94' Conquest 7AGE-20V  科學怪人 
Built By Salim & Tuffy                                                     
CandyMan Tuned (143wkw @7000rpm)  Pump Fuel!!
Ethanol Map (1??wkw @ 7900rpm)                   


"We can’t think like Africans, in Africa, generally. We are in Johannesburg, this is Johannesburg. It’s not some national road in Malawi.” - Jacob Zuma
                                           

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

It did make 145hp @7000rpm.
Anyhow, i just need to sort it out, but the wiring done by the tuner is pittyful.
Found a wire that was down to the metal making contact on the head.....shocking.

It has been taped up, but car is still limiting ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/sad

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

semicolon wrote:

It did make 145hp @7000rpm.
Anyhow, i just need to sort it out, but the wiring done by the tuner is pittyful.
Found a wire that was down to the metal making contact on the head.....shocking.

It has been taped up, but car is still limiting ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/sad

if you are looking for a good tuner let me know.

94' Conquest 7AGE-20V  科學怪人 
Built By Salim & Tuffy                                                     
CandyMan Tuned (143wkw @7000rpm)  Pump Fuel!!
Ethanol Map (1??wkw @ 7900rpm)                   


"We can’t think like Africans, in Africa, generally. We are in Johannesburg, this is Johannesburg. It’s not some national road in Malawi.” - Jacob Zuma
                                           

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Take it to nizaam from global tuning solutions one of the best tuners in durban sendn my car der ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/wink  check out the site tunes all top cars

www.gtsr.co.za

Its not how u stand by your car its how u RACE ur car ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/wink

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

I'm in Pretoria..Durban is a tad far... ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

semicolon wrote:

I'm in Pretoria..Durban is a tad far... ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink

That's your problem rite there  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/tongue  Jus joking.

94' Conquest 7AGE-20V  科學怪人 
Built By Salim & Tuffy                                                     
CandyMan Tuned (143wkw @7000rpm)  Pump Fuel!!
Ethanol Map (1??wkw @ 7900rpm)                   


"We can’t think like Africans, in Africa, generally. We are in Johannesburg, this is Johannesburg. It’s not some national road in Malawi.” - Jacob Zuma
                                           

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Hahaha....Taking it to RBTS for a rewire and retune and HOPEFULLY the problem will be solved and i'll make 150whp+  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

semicolon wrote:

Hahaha....Taking it to RBTS for a rewire and retune and HOPEFULLY the problem will be solved and i'll make 150whp+  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink

I'm not clued up about the tuners in JHB, but i'm sure there a few guys on the forum that can point you in the right direction.

150whp is low, aim for 190whp+.  That is what that motor is supposed to be making in stock form, actually that is around 7kw less lol.

94' Conquest 7AGE-20V  科學怪人 
Built By Salim & Tuffy                                                     
CandyMan Tuned (143wkw @7000rpm)  Pump Fuel!!
Ethanol Map (1??wkw @ 7900rpm)                   


"We can’t think like Africans, in Africa, generally. We are in Johannesburg, this is Johannesburg. It’s not some national road in Malawi.” - Jacob Zuma
                                           

Re: Toyota LM Bubble with red top 3sge conversion

Shadow wrote:
semicolon wrote:

Hahaha....Taking it to RBTS for a rewire and retune and HOPEFULLY the problem will be solved and i'll make 150whp+  ../../extensions/custom_smilies_2/img1/blink

I'm not clued up about the tuners in JHB, but i'm sure there a few guys on the forum that can point you in the right direction.

150whp is low, aim for 190whp+.  That is what that motor is supposed to be making in stock form, actually that is around 7kw less lol.

190whp ATW at altitude? I don't think so.
If a Toyota 86 can only manage 130whp on the same dyno the Beams is still doing pretty good @145whp